Possibly Helpful Advice

Including what we found in Scientology before it became a cult

Geir Isene speaks

The Surviving Scientology YouTube channel has posted its near one-hour interview with Geir Isene, the only OT VIII to live in Norway, and the only OT VIII in Norway to be declared a Suppressive Person.

And he’s proud of it.

He’s a profoundly logical person, and his logic pierces the chaos, insanity, and illogics of the church rather well. So, even though the piece is nearly an hour long, I advise you watch it, even if you have to watch it in chunks.

I noticed some points on which I agreed and disagreed, which I expanded on in this post.

(I’m not trying to start a fight with Geir. I just have different viewpoints and opinions based on my own background, experience, staff servitude and training that sometimes lead me to different conclusions.




Offset 0:01:50 Geir tells the story about OSA Int asking him how to make Google only find positive results on Scientology if someone entered “Scientology” as a search term, only returning bad results if someone typed in “Scientology bad” or “Scientology stupid” or some such phraseology. This demonstrates the church’s, Miscavige’s, and OSA’s ignorance in “how Internet works”.

First, there’s more search engines than Google. Bing (Microsoft’s search engine) has now grown in popularity so that it gets 25% of the hits that Google does. And there’s Yahoo, Ask, AOL, and mywebsearch at the top of the popularity list. Google rightly told OSA to go to hell, by the way. If their users (customers) and advertisers learned that Google had modified their search algorithm to only return positive results about Scientology in the suggested way, they would have moved their business to a search engine that didn’t mess with their heads. But this story shows the hubris, arrogance and self-righteousness that OSA and Scientology Inc will exert on the world. And contributes to the overall picture of why Scientology Inc is losing.

 Offset 0:03:30 Geir talks about how OSA tried to get his input in “burying the hatchet” with the Electronic Freedom Foundation. The story tells more of the assertive, aggressive attitude of Scientology Inc in handling “bad PR” in the Internet. Since OSA had tried to get alt.religion.scientology shut down, and tried to get anonymous re-mailers shut down so that contributors to ARS couldn’t be anonymous, they ran afoul of the basic purpose and philosophy of EFF, which itself made public comments critical of Scientology Inc. This demonstrates how the church’s efforts to create “good PR” only end up making “worse PR” for the church. And they deserve it. Acting as a barrier in Geir’s efforts to help them remedy the situation was the opinion of the Sea Org members involved that LRH was a computer genius and had put down all the information they needed to know as to handling the problem. This distorted idea no doubt came from LRH’s stories about how he’d seen whole planets run with computers.

Offset 0:07:50 Geir talks about OSA having him infiltrate an Internet critic and find out his crimes, such as being a pedophile, which he obviously had as he was a critic of Scientology Inc. This is the ironic paradox of OSA. They presume, often incorrectly, that a critic of Scientology Inc has huge undisclosed withholds that they can use to blackmail the person into shutting up or going away. But then by blackmailing or extorting or threatening the person, they themselves are committing overts that then need to be withheld.

Offset 0:08:50 Geir talks about the Wikipedia/Scientology Inc conflict, where Scientology Inc-owned computers were banned from editing Wikipedia articles about Scientology. I remember this clash quite well, and I don’t think Geir represented the story fully. There was a concerted, orchestrated effort by Scientology Inc to edit Wikipedia articles to remove information critical of Scientology from Wikipedia articles, and in cases, replacing it with false or unsubstantiatable, but complimentary information about Scientology or Scientology Inc. Geir adds more to the Wiki story that I didn’t know by saying that Scientology Inc’s editing efforts went so far as to constitute advertising on Wikipedia and that led to the ban on Scientology-owned computers editing Wikipedia articles. Geir came up with a plan to get Scientology Inc editing computers reinstated on Wikipedia, which reflects Geir’s sensibilities and awareness of Internet protocols and behavior. But since it called for a public admission of wrongdoing as the first step, the plan was wholesale rejected by OSA.

Offset 0:11:49 Apparently Scientology Inc has hired some expensive high-powered PR firm with a track record of helping corporations get out of PR hot water. Geir had a suggestion for handling their PR that they should have followed instead of spending scads of parishioner money on a PR-rescue firm that they won’t listen to, anyway. His first piece of advice was stop lying. I want to point out that the definition of entheta according to the tech dictionary is 1. means enturbulated theta (thought or life); especially refers to communications, which, based on lies and confusions, are slanderous, choppy or destructive in an attempt to overwhelm or suppress a person or group. (Scn AD)

(As a result of OSA’s continuous lies, Scientology Inc has put itself in the awkward position of calling the truth entheta, and claiming that their generated entheta is the truth. That’s Newspeak, right out of George Orwell’s propaganda handbook 1984.)

Geir says that Scientology Inc should admit to and detail every lie that they’ve told. They should then only put out information that’s been fact-checked and can be fact-checked. (That’s the problem Scientology Inc got into with the Lawrence Wright book. Wright wanted to fact-check things and instead of helping him do that they just denied or altered the response or didn’t respond or told him he shouldn’t put it in the book. And this was how they handled things like “how many parishioners are in Scientology?”)

Geir points out that Scientology Inc cannot correct the problem because (1) Scientology Inc does not allow itself to admit any wrongdoing and (2) Scientology Inc does not permit itself to stop lying.

Given the bottomless pit of lies doled out constantly by Scientology Inc, I wished that Geir had pointed out a key piece of scripture from LRH in HCOPL 12 MAY 1970 (Data Series 3) BREAKTHROUGHS: VALID ANSWERS MAY ONLY BE ATTAINED IN USING VALID DATA. The church’s OTs are coming to invalid conclusions about church operations and statistics because they’re presuming the information the church is feeding them is valid. Most of the time, it isn’t.

Offset 0:14:15 Geir points out that the church lies so spectacularly and regularly because to dedicated Sea Org members, “Scientology is the most important thing in the universe”. Therefore, he says, that justifies any overt committed in an effort to protect Scientology Inc and David Miscavige.

Offset 0:14:30 Geir explains how KSW 1 says that the only thing that thetans have in common is the bank, and coupled with the Sea Org notions of superiority and arrogance, leads anything done or said critical of Scientology to be dismissed as bank. Especially the Internet, the “reactive mind” of mankind. That’s a generality and a real A=A=A=A computation on the Sea Org’s part, by the way.

Offset 0:15:29 The interviewer points out that the Internet makes it possible for truth-seekers to band and work ruthlessly to expose Scientology Inc’s lies, whereas thirty years ago if someone wanted to expose a Scientology lie, he was pretty much on his own. Geir points out that the church’s contempt for non-Scientologists by claiming that Scientologists are Homo Novus (new man, an unavoidable evolution of man to a higher state) there occurs a common cult-factor, wherein the members of the cult consider themselves superior to those not in the cult. That in itself justifies harming those not in the cult. Just ask any good  1933 Nazi.

Offset 0:16:15 Geir talks about the advent of Anonymous into the Scientology world, which is by its very nature is based on copyrights and hidden data. Geir was on the board of the Norwegian branch of EFF and ran several open-source companies and was immediately between a rock and a hard place: Scientology Inc wanting him to squash Anonymous; Geir wanting to promote free exchange of information. He talks about not being allowed to think that Anonymous was cool and a good idea, as the church would consider it antithetical for an OT VIII to think that way.

Offset 0:20:00 Discussion of using copyright law to protect Scientology Inc’s upper levels. Geir probably hasn’t studied 6305C21 THE HELATROBUS IMPLANTS (SHSBC-294) wherein LRH says that the Incredulity factor contained in the upper levels is a security measure for Scientology. and that he had the thought of making line plots confidential, but why bother? In other words, the “secrecy” of the upper levels is a more recent development. I think it was more likely done to protect not the preclear or his sanity, or to protect others and their sanity, but to protect the income lines of Scientology Inc. In my mind, what’s really protecting the OT levels is two things (1) the incredulity factor and (2) the skill one needs with the meter and materials to audit the OT materials. I used to have a third item on that list: (3) the cost of the materials, especially the E-Meter, but since you can get a usable, all electronic E-Meter that can be owned by someone who isn’t a minister in good standing in the church of Scientology Inc, doesn’t need batteries replaced or mechanical recalibration, all for about $500, that concern has dissolved.

Oh, yeah. Even if the church sold an E-Meter for Solo auditing that cost only $500, people would still go to independent E-Meter suppliers for the simple reason they didn’t want to give one red cent to Scientology Inc.

Offset 0:22:00 Geir talks about completing OT VIII in 2006 and being on the ship for a Maiden Voyage event and telling Miscavige “no” when Miscavige was forcing the ED-ship of Oslo Org on him.

The notable part of the story from my perspective is how Miscavige stopped mid-sentence and walked off without finishing the comm cycle. It’s a sign that Miscavige isn’t in PT and can’t communicate and is willing to ARC break anyone. Geir talks about how insane it was that Miscavige stopped mid-sentence and walked off. But I see the incident slightly differently. Miscavige, from his Int Base experience, is used to choking and hitting people who disagree with him. There on the ship, disagreeing with Geir about how Geir isn’t going to be the next ED of Oslo Org, his impulse was to throttle Geir. But Miscavige has a mechanism that kicks in and keeps him from doing anything out-PR in front of a crowd. (It is in fact why he won’t give even a live interview with someone like Anderson Cooper.) When the mechanism kicks in, Miscavige just walks out of the room. Yeah, it ARC-breaks people, but it’s not as bad as giving 50 people a story to tell about how crazy Miscavige is.

Offset 0:25:45 Geir relates how the Miscavige encounter helped him see that the local-org insanity he had been seeing was a contagion from the top of the Scientology Inc org board on down to the individual parishioner. I want to point this out: just about every Scientologist who left Scientology Inc with their head high had had this kind of cognition. Michael Fairman had it. Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder had it. Lisa Marie Presley had it. Jason Beghe had it. And Leah Remini had it. And the cognition came about because of the church’s treatment…especially Miscavige’s treatment…of someone trying to help the church. After the revelation, from 2007 to 2009, Geir spent over 1000 hours on the internet, trying to assemble a picture of Scientology Inc. It turned out it’s the picture Scientology Inc didn’t want him, or anyone, to see.

Offset 0:28:50 Discussion of the “musical chairs” incident at Int Base, which demonstrated the insanity and capriciousness pervading the highest levels of Scientology Inc.

Offset 0:30:15 Geir talks about how he resigned from Scientology by getting his story out before the church could preempt him and paint him as an evil-purposed insane wild card. This included going to a TV station and giving an interview about the departure before the church could take any action about it. Note that preemptive defense is the best offense when leaving Scientology.

Offset 0:33:00 OSA approaches Geir with binders full of affidavits saying Mike and Marty are liars and why Geir shouldn’t be a critic of Scientology Inc. Actually, they ambush him with this barrage of “proof”. Since Geir knows that the church lies, lies about its lies, and lies about the liars who tell its lies, he knows that any affidavit presented by the church is certainly false, and since it will never materialize in a courtroom, it will never be questioned or have to be proven true.

Offset 0:33:55 Geir launches into his opinion of Miscavige as a “creative genius”. This is a big difference from my opinion of David Miscavige. Geir says that Miscavige is boxed in by Scientology Inc’s self-imposed limitations that say that Scientology as a subject is complete and consistent, but that nothing man-made is complete and consistent, citing Gödel’s incompleteness theorems for proof. He correctly points out the paradox that Scientology’s fixed immutability is contradicted from within Scientology itself, citing the conditions formulas data wherein conditions do not remain stable and fixed, but require constant inputs…efforts…to keep changing or they collapse and disintegrate.

On my own part, I think that the constant invalidating of preclears by making them redo levels they’ve already completed, and the constant re-working and re-marketing of materials is Miscavige’s attempt to make a sow’s ear out of a silk purse. Which is not marketing genius, as it’s what has led to the general dissatisfaction and disaffection and defection of formerly loyal Scientologists. What would have been marketing genius would have been if he could have continued to generate income from re-dos and re-publishing without getting rid of his customer base. But he didn’t do that.

So no marketing/creative genius in my view.

Offset 0:35:00 Since the moment of LRH’s death, Scientology as a science or philosophy has supposedly been set in stone. Scientology cannot be changed, improved upon or modified, thereby violating what LRH said were universal natural laws, wherein one must maintain inputs into a system to keep it alive…growing…or it dies. So Miscavige’s paradox is to take a subject that is fixed in reinforced concrete and make it expand. And as we’ve seen, Miscavige is at his core too stupid to keep Scientology expanding and growing without changing its basics. So Miscavige actually keeps changing Scientology (“Ideal Orgs” & Basics) yet claiming that it’s on-source, in-ethics, and resulting in massive expansion for the church. All lies, of course.

Offset 0:35:35 Geir says he believes that Miscavige is a true hard-core believer in Scientology. I want to point out that if that’s true, Miscavige arrived at that state without actually studying, understanding and being able to apply Scientology.

He’s a failed auditor. He’s a failed administrator. He’s a failed student. He’s a failed case.

If you disbelieve me, get me a copy of the Ideal Org program. What? No Ideal Org program? He’s a failed administrator!

If you disbelieve me, turn your 15-year-old kid over to him to audit up the Grades. What? You won’t do that? Failed auditor!

If you disbelieve me, hand Miscavige a card with this quote on it: “If the org slumps during this transition period, don’t engage in “fund raising” or “selling postcards” or borrowing money. Just make more income with Scientology.  L Ron Hubbard  From HCOPL URGENT ORG PROGRAMMING” and ask him how his duplication of it was used to put together the Ideal Org effort. What? He didn’t duplicate it? Failed student!

According to the Admin Dictionary, PRESENT TIME ORDERS ONLY, a type of dev-t where basic programs or standing orders or policy go out by not being enforced. Present time orders only are being forwarded or handled. This eventually balls up in a big wad and an organization vanishes. Primary targets go out. (HCO PL 27 Jan 69)

That’s right. I said it.

By operating by doling out PRESENT TIME ORDERS ONLY, David Miscavige is a Dev-T merchant. He is totally unable to learn from his mistakes, because he is unable to project into the future what consequences his present-time orders will produce. So that means he’s stuck in present time. Which, according to the Tech Dictionary means this: STUCK IN PRESENT TIME, 1. the condition of a person being incapable of moving on the time track into the past. In actuality the preclear is in some incident which forces him to be in the apparent present. (HCOB 11 May 65) 2 . a person cannot be stuck in present time. The engram might give him the illusion of being stuck in present time, but actually he is stuck in an engram. (NOTL) 3 . when a case is stuck in present time it is highly charged with occluded emotion and it is obeying a restimulated engram to the effect that it must go all the way to now and stay there. (DMSMH)

Why couldn’t he see or predict what the effects of harassing Monique Rathbun would be? Why couldn’t he learn the lessons of his past of harassing “ex” parishioners to see what would happen? He’s stuck in present time. So he’s a failed case!

Offset 0:35:55 Geir admits that Miscavige is only superficially keeping Scientology alive by repackaging, selling, repackaging, selling, repackaging and selling Scientology. There’s several problems with that: (1) “repackaging” has consisted of altering that which has supposedly been set it stone, which alienates Scientologists, and (2) the more Scientologists that get alienated, the fewer new people come in, so more and more money has to be gotten from fewer and fewer people and (3) “repackaging”, Miscavige-style, means in most cases criticizing the source of Scientology and its founder, alienating more Scientologists.

My own story about the constant alterations and re-releases goes like this: After the 2007 Basics release, people asked me if I was pleased with the COB because he corrected the books. My response at the time was “if the books were the problem holding back Scientology, and LRH supposedly knew it, then I’m not pleased with COB; I’m pissed at LRH for not correcting them before he kicked.” 

The problem I have with this part of the interview is with what Geir says about Miscavige being successful at the re-packaging and re-selling, but I assert Miscavige isn’t successful at it. Every day, more and more Scientologists realize that the claims being made about the “stats” are just lie upon fabrication upon puzzle upon conundrum. And so they, noisily or quietly, depart Scientology. That’s not “success” in my mind.

Even Geir admits that Scientology is in a death spiral, so there’s something I don’t get about Geir’s logic here.

Offset 0:37:05 Geir points out here the underlying service facsimile that keeps Miscavige going, and what keeps Miscavige’s whip to the back of the Sea Org members. “It must work, because LRH says it works.” (That’s right out of KSW 1, by the way.)

To understand that, you have to understand that a service facsimile is a stable datum that is adopted to stave off a confusion. It’s adopted when a person is so overwhelmed by a confusion that only the adoption of the stable datum holds the confusion at bay. A service facsimile is all of it logical gobbledygook. (ref: HCOB 1 September 1963, ROUTINE THREE SC)

Ever wanted to know a quick way to figure out if someone’s operating on a service facsimile? They spout something that’s logical gobbledygook, like “All sex is rape.”

If you’re tempted to ask the person: “So how’s that working for you?”, the likelihood is you’re dealing with a person with one or more major service facsimiles running his or her life. The odd part is that when a person runs his life on service facs, the results they get are almost always observably destructive or confusing or chaos-generating. So they adopt a new, additional service facsimile to explain away the failure: “All men are gay.” So how’s that working for you, Davey?

Offset 0:37:22 Here we find Geir’s conclusion about Miscavige’s “tell”. It’s a service fac that explains away his failures. “There must be suppressives in the organization.” As a result, more and more and more and more Scientologists are being declared suppressive.

After all, if LRH is 100% right, and the modifications Miscavige made to the materials makes them 110% right, and Scientology always works, then the downstats and unworkability in Scientology must be the result of suppressives. Right?

Just ask anyone in Dallas’ Ideal Org. After years of Suppressive hunts (like “snipe hunts”) the Org still hasn’t expanded to Saint Hill Size, much less both the Day and Foundation Orgs being anywhere near Saint Hill Size.

It can’t be the result of the Suppressive person hunts. It can’t be the result of David Miscavige’s inattention to technical results. It can’t be how ugly the Org is because it’s all renovated. It must be because we haven’t located the “correct suppressive”, a computation that gives an inordinate amount of power to whoever that supposed suppressive is.

Offset 0:37:49 Despite what is shown at the Int Events, people in the local Orgs and Missions aren’t seeing these glowing results and unlimited upward expansion. “So we must be doing something wrong; it must be us.”

Any Class III auditor recognizes this as the self-assignment of a wrong listing item. And people who are out-list are down-tone and have slow case gain. (ref:  HCOB  1 August 1968 THE LAWS OF LISTING AND NULLING) It’s because they’ve been burdened with a wrong item assigned by Int Management.

Offset 0:38:45 The church is caught in a death spiral of “correcting” LRH (at the same time that LRH is never wrong) and reissuing it and re-selling it at the same time it is hunting for and declaring as Suppressive the most experienced and trained and aware parishioners, all of which steepen the angle of the death dive. And adding to the speed of the nose dive is the church’s efforts to get more and more money from fewer and fewer people. That’s the source of the stress that makes Scientology’s technology ineffective. Go figure.

Offset 0:39:45 Geir says basically that as much as Miscavige is propping up Scientology Inc, he’s bringing it down, along with the truths about Scientology Inc making it to the Internet. The problem the way I see it is the more desperate Miscavige gets to save his reputation and save Scientology, the more he alters Scientology and the Scientology experience, ruining the future of Scientology on a day-to-day basis.

Offset 0:40:55 Geir surmises that what will bring down Miscavige before he dies is that someone will find something on him that will enable the FBI or IRS to roll the tanks in so Miscavige can be perp-walked out the front gates of the Int Base. That would end the conflict and, unless the remaining crew could get their ethics in, end Scientology as an organized religion.

Offset 0:41:55 Geir states that if Miscavige goes, the church is too far gone (it’s a “broken brand”) to survive Miscavige’s departure and/or conviction.

Offset 0:42:58 Geir recommends to still in-church OTs that they start educating themselves about Scientology Inc management and the truths that the church is carefully hiding from them. He says that fully informing themselves about what’s gone on and is going on in the church is the only way they can be truly responsible for themselves, the tech, and the future. “The truth is out there.”

Offset 0:45:09 Geir describes his lack of significance regarding being labeled an OT. It’s part of his dislike of Scientology’s status obsession with labeling.

For me, Scientology’s fixation on status is like what LRH described in HCOB 16 March 1977 THE GAMBLER (Expanded Dianetics Series 22). The person keeps putting money in and putting money in hoping he’ll get something of value out. Why do people put their entire life’s savings into an Ideal Org project that can’t possibly work at the same time liquidating their ability to go up the Bridge? They’re gambling. They’re not looking. They’re not predicting.

Offset 0:47:47 Geir describes his own beliefs that Scientology can help one spiritually, but so can Zen and Buddhism. Spiritual elevation depends on what practice helps a person find his own path. He dislikes the one-size-fits-all dictated by the Bridge, especially its length and expense and unnecessary delaying steps. Additionally, he disliked the Scientology Inc dictates as to participation and identity that robs one’s free will. He doesn’t want to be burdened with the identity required of an OT VIII as defined by Scientology Inc.

Offset 0:54:40 End of interview


 So that’s my take on the Geir Isene interview from Surviving Scientology (Karen de la Carriere’s YouTube video channel.)

Thanks for watching.

— written by Plain Old Thetan

Number of views:5915


Geir Isene  on September 18th, 2013

Thanks for the very detailed analysis of my interview.

One comment on my logic regarding DM’s success in keeping Scientology superficially alive: He is as successful as he can be – captaining a sinking ship.

I will add an analogy; Scientology is like 17th century medicine – set in stone, packaged and sold as complete and consistent. There are good elements in 17th century medicine (first aid, some cures for diseases etc.) and there are bad elements (cures by dust from unicorn horns, dissection disallowed, witch hunts, etc). When set in stone and sold as a complete packaged, it has no future. If evolved and enhanced – like what actually happened to 17th century medicine, the good parts does survive and the silly and bad parts are left in the ditch where it belongs. To stridently hold on to the set-in-stone-package will inevitably make for a demise of the subject. Hence Scientology as a package will, should and must die.

That was all for now :-)

Take care,


Video: Me on Scientology | Geir Isene - explorer of free will  on September 18th, 2013

[…] Update: David St Lawrence has an extensive analysis of the interview. […]

elizabeth hamre  on September 18th, 2013

To Geir… if you would explore communication telepathy further what existing beyond spoken words than you would find out that Telepathy in fact works very well and scientology materials as it was written.. studied memorised that material is out in the Universe.. since spiritual entities do not have the need for spoken words to understand… Elizabeth Hamre.

elizabeth hamre  on September 18th, 2013

and I am not picking an Geir either but I have explored in session communication an every possible level and I removed erased immense amount of counter postulates… reasons why one do not, can not read=understand thoughts. The communication course an which I have had incredible wins and I have done them 9 occasion while I have achieved full OT 7 and I still put in thousands of solo hours exploring communication.. I have gained the knowledge how scientology … cognitions effect the Universe.

Church Reform, Step 1: Sea Org recruitment  on September 24th, 2013

[…] Geir Isene speaks September 18, 2013 […]

Daniel Victor  on September 25th, 2013

Regarding Geir’s process of ‘waking up’ I hear: For a long time he thought that there were just local problems while the church’s upper management and pope did their best to correct mistakes and educate subordinates etc.

And then Geir met DM (summer 2006) and realized that the church’s problems were coming from the top, not the bottom.

And I read that Plain Old Thetan agrees writing that the same was true for Marty Rathbun and others.

So what Geir did was that he started informing himself between 2007 and 2009, spending 1.000 hours of reading. And then took the decision to leave the church.

I have seen the interview five times by now. And I got more and more the feeling that something was wrong.

Because I also heard Geir saying that he had helped OSA fighting against critics and to be able to do that he had read a lot before. So he knew about what the critics were complaining about, including Ananymous, Andreas and others. And he knew from his own experience that it had been official church policy to lie, threaten, spy, disconnect, bully, send to RPF etc.

This is why he could say: Stop lying, stop seeing Wikipedia as a platform for advertising, stop expecting google to hide information from public’s eyes.

Geir said that he had ‘small doubts here and there’ prior to meeting DM in summer 2006.

I wonder how what Geir already knew before that did not lead to real strong doubts.

And even after meeting DM, realizing that the top of the church was criminal, it took him 3 years (until 2009) until he left the church.
He needed to spend 1.000 hours in two years to know sufficient to decide that it was time to go.

It felt strange hearing his advice to OTs.

This advice is fine. But how come that Geir himself had not left even though he already did KNOW what was going on?

I sometimes wonder how people from OSA feel when they read posts on Geir’s or Mike’s or Marty’s or my blog. All the shit which happens in the church is being served to them on a tray.

Do they seriously believe that those are all lies – even though they know from their own personal experience that there is a lot of shit going on in the Church.

So I wonder:

While agreeing to spy for OSA so that it could start harassing Andreas – did he believe that what he read in Andreas’ blog was all bullshit?

I adore Geir’s openness and ability to analyze and to explain complex things in a short form.

It is not my intention to ‘attack’ him. I am just extremely irritated by what I understand as contradictions.

I had hesitated to write down my thoughts until I found this page which just invited doing in-depth examination of the interview.

Daniel Victor  on September 25th, 2013

Geir was asked what he thought of David Miscavige now he said that he thought DM is a creative genius.

1. In my view David Miscavige is a cruel dictator who lives in luxury and lets his staff live in poverty.

2. The question if DM is a creative genius or not would come into my mind only after having mentioned many other not so positive attributes. (It’s a bit like remembering Hitler as a skillful and successful commander.)

3. And once picking up the subject of the ‘creative genius’ in the end, then I would say that DM would be one if he had found ways to bypass those LRH policies which kill the church in the long run. A creative genius would have made the church attractive for people to join instead of a nightmare – flushing down the toilet all the suppressive shit he inherited from LRH.

Once he had become a dictator he could decide. His stuff agreed to play musical chairs and to torture. So stuff certainly would not have resisted against abolishing fair game, disconnection, hard labor, abortion and and and …

I don’t want to read on DM’s gravestone: “This is the grave of a creative genius”. This would be an insult for tens of thousands of people who have been damaged in various ways, including Geir’s wife Anette and myself.

PlainOldThetan  on September 25th, 2013


I don’t know if you have a full understanding of the concept of “cognitive dissonance”, but that helped me understand how someone…even an OT VIII…could operate on contradictory ideas without realizing they’re contradictory.

LRH describes longstanding problems as due to areas of confusion with contradictory ideas. He further describes such an area of confusion as acting as a “bouncer” that prevents its own inspection.

That is, oddly enough, the basis of Grade III and Grade IV.

What happens inside Scientology Inc is that, at the same time you think you’re paying to get these areas of conflict and confusion resolved, Scientology Inc is installing new ones.

And since you’re paying to get rid of the confusions…you have the Grades certs for III and IV, after all…you don’t see that Scientology Inc is installing new ones. The “uninspectable” nature of the confusions and problems prevents their as-isness.

Even for an OT VIII.

As can be seen in Geir’s case, and Mike’s case, and Marty’s case, when a keystone is pulled out of the wall of enforced confusions, it starts to disassemble. Sometimes taking years before one can truly think on one’s own.

I hope that helps.

Daniel Victor  on September 25th, 2013

Thanks David,
yes, I am familiar with ‘cognitive dissonance’. It had been covered at one of Geir’s interesting blog posts. (Thanks Geir).

Yes, that would have made sense for me if Geir would have explained it like that, that even though he DID have all the data he did not put them together properly.

But he didn’t.

He explained it in a way as if he only knew after the DM event and reading on the Internet for two years.

“How could I be so blind for such a long time???” Paul Haggis said in an interview.

He admitted that.

Geir didn’t.

As far as Marty and Mike and others are concerned who closely worked with the COB: The did know from very early on that he is an asshole and what he was doing.

No misunderstanding possible.

That’s history. So my point is NOT: to attack them because of that. I do appreciate very much what they do now.

I am just interested in this ‘cognitive dissonance’ phenomenon.

Also I myself had closed my eyes and ears for anything critical being said against the Church – (while internally I complained to OSA what I thought should be improved). But altogether also I was BLIND to some extent.

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